2009 AGM

jasonb · 2009 AGM

Just to let everyone know a 'provisional' date & venue have been set for this years AGM.

Thursday 24th September at the Railway Inn, Pontefract @ 8pm

Further announcements will follow to confirm all details!

Deborah Aspland · AGM

I must say that I am disappointed that the AGM is on a Thursday. Surely, it would be better suited to a Monday night -as this is the usual night for the quiz. I thought the point was to have as many players as possible present at the meeting. If people have decided to leave their Monday nights free for a quiz then that is when they expect their AGM to be: on a Monday. They may have other commitments on a Thursday. I know that we have sometimes had preliminary games on a Thursday but they are usually timetabled on the fixtures list, giving plenty of notice. This is not really fair on people who work shifts or have other interests that they need to prioritise. I am hoping that the date can be changed to a Monday.

I am also arguing once again, for the date of the AGM for 2010-11 to be announced early. Preferably at this year's AGM or -at the very latest- the Finals Night.

jasonb

The point, absolutely, Debbie is to have as many members of league there as possible which is why the meeting was not set for next Monday 21st as this I am sure would have been deemed as 'too little notice'.

It was set for the 24th for 2 reasons, the first being to give as many people as much chance to organise time to attend as we could and the second because your team captain, a committee member, requested that the meeting be held before she went on holidays.

I hope this explains the reasonin behind the decision!

jasonb · Re: 2009 AGM

Official Simon · Thursdays etc

We set the AGM for Thursday 24/9 because due to non-availabilities etc we only managed to have an informal committee meeting this Tuesday. We felt that next Monday would therefore be "too short notice" like in the past. We had to get it in next week because Brenda requested it to be before she goes on holiday the following weekend.

Just one other question Debby (apart from can we not ever do anything that you can find nothing to complain about?); if that was a bad idea then why did you allow Neil, who we approached to book the venue on that date and time, to go ahead and finalise it and tell us it was okay? Did he not mention it at all before he went down to the Railway to ask?

I guess great minds don't always think alike then?

Deborah Aspland

Firstly Simon, I did not realise that we organise the league around the lives individual members of the quiz league. If we give information early (before the end of the previous season) then people booking holiidays can not be an excuse for not holding a meeting (no disrespect to Brenda).
Secondly, it is only my wish that the quiz league is ran to the best of its ability -and if that is complaining then I guess I am. I don't see you criticising anyone else on here for giving their opinion.
Thirdly, I didn't allow Neil to do anything. He doesn't have to ask my permission to do anything so what were you suggesting by this comment?
Finally, I went with Neil to make the arrangements at the Railway because I know from past experience, that it would not be changed because of something I said. I will not express Neil's opinion on the AGM as that is for him to do so if he chooses to do so. As always you cannot be objectional with your replies and I resent the way you cannot answer this post without getting personal.

Official Simon

We only knew about Brenda's holiday this week and as she usually seems to miss the AGM it does seem reasonable for her to ask to have one when she's here. And I guess if we had scheduled it for later it could have been said to be too late, so that's why we did that. It's nothing like a case of "arranging it round individual members' lives", that's an inaccurate comment.

All I'm suggesting by my other comment is that you could have suggested you didn't like Thursdays through someone who knew in advance about it, Neil and maybe we could have looked at something else. Not intending to sound personal or criticising. It's a bit difficult to disagree with other opinions on here because there aren't many, there's only just about me, you, Neil, Peter Askins and Andrew who come on here regularly at all!

BrianMc

Is it cos I is blick ??

Deborah Aspland

Simon
I am not suggesting that there should be an AGM when Brenda is on holiday if she wants to be there. I think it is important that everyone gets a chance to be there. Maybe if the committee had a committee meeting before the end of the season and set a date for the AGM and announced it at the finals night then Brenda (and others) would be aware of the date and book holidays accordingly. Instead, she has made plans, like many others may have, and because of this it is all 'let's try and get it sorted quickly so that the season doesn't start late'. Therefore, it does look like it has been arranged for Brenda, which is not fair, as it is lack of organisation that has caused this situation not Brenda.

I don't expect Neil to fight my battles. I made my comment on here because I prefered it to be discussed in an open forum. Speaking to you on the phone my opinions may have not been passed on and it is really not an ideal way of dealing with an issue. Re-arranging for one person (me) is not something I expect to be done. It is impossible to fit in with everyone's life, and trying to suit the majority is difficult when done at such a late point. No-one should expect things re-arranged just for them.

It makes more sense to have anything to do with the quiz on a Monday, as I have mentioned before. The meeting does not need to be exactly two weeks before the first match of the season it could be three or more. As long as we know well in advance.

I realise that the committee must make decisions but I just wish that things were organised with a bit more foresight.

I accept that if I put a point on here it may be challenged. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say. I am not stupid. This is what the forum is for: discussion. I am not challenging that. I am concerned over personal remarks about me, my husband or my marriage.

If I am one of the few people to come on the forum then it must be bad practice to insult me until I feel that I no longer wish to use it.

Deborah Aspland

Brian,

Don't want to leave you out

Respect!!! Laughing

Debby

Brenda Clayforth · AGM

This message is to all who use this forum in answer to the discussion about the time of this years AGM as a commitee member and a team captain I think it is absolutely essential I should be at this meeting I have missed two AGM's running so as a commitee member I asked it to be before my holiday. I take being a commitee member seriously and hope you people who are put out understand my point of view.

Brenda Clayforth

Deborah Aspland

I hope you have not misunderstood me, Brenda.
I have in no way been blaming you for the date of the AGM. My argument is that the date of the AGM should be announced before the end of the season as leaving until September/October to announce the date causes problems for those who have made other arrangements, unaware of when the season begins.

I think everyone should have the same considerations given to them.

Debby

Neil Aspland · AGM date

Or, better still, have a system where the AGM is always the last Monday in September, the Charity Shield the first Monday in October and the first league week the second Monday. That way, the timetable of the season's opening would be known in perpetuity.

Having plenty of notice of the AGM might even ensure that at least one representative of each team attends, which ought to happen but never seems to. Maybe the evening ought to include a quiz?

Neil.

peterpotato

Well, the AGM came and went last Thursday, and the turn-out was poor.

Nothing much was debated, as it seemed pointless to do so.

The only alterations to the existing rules/format as I recall were to increase the weighting for Second Division clubs from 5 points to 10 points in the Handicap Cup. Also, the retained question-setter (Darren) would not be doing 2 different sets of questions. So, the questions will be harder/easier than they were last season, depending on which division you're in.

The only other point I would make would be that this website be closed down, as it costs more money to run that I thought, according to the Balance Sheet (plus, it's arguably served it's purpose, and now does more harm than good). Any grievances, suggestions etc can be brought to the attention of the powers that be by other means, and maybe if quizzers do have good points they'd like to make, they'll turn up to the next AGM.

Official Simon · Website etc...

I think the idea to "close this website down" is silly.

The FTQL has had this website for I think 5 or 6 years now and up to last year has been paid for in whole by me personally. The £112 cost will only be about half that from now on (£4.99 per month = £60 for the year).

This is because our ISP Fasthosts has now decided to include the automatic Sitebuilder feature (which means essentially that any plonker can build a website with their software rather than having to be a qualified website builder using Frontpage or Dreamweaver etc, which are complicated programmes requiring training etc) in the monthly price rather than charging around £55 per year on top of the monthly webspace cost for it, which it was during the last 5 years. Therefore nearly half the cost from now on.

Actually, I think what you are referring to is this Forum in any case, and this forum is not actually provided by Fasthosts and costs nothing. It is provided by phpbb as you will see at the head of this page and is a free forum. It is not attached to our website but is in another internet location entirely and is simply accessed by a link from ftql.com.

I certainly don't agree with closing the website itself down, regardless of cost factors (which as I've just described are not so great from this point on), because I am certain that most people would agree that it is a valuable resource and it announces the Five Towns Quiz League to the world. We have had several good contacts through the website just being there, for instance the recent request from Countdown to canvass for FTQLers who might be interested. At £60 a year I think it's good value.

If people want to propose closing down the forum then fine, bring it to the next AGM, but I wouldn't be in favour of it because I think you are basically advocating avoiding fall-outs by silencing dissent, which even when it criticises me, I am in favour of, as a good liberal.

Guest

Here is a list of really crazy ideas.

How about two up two down. Announced at the start of the season?
How about giving two points for a correct answer and no points for an incorrect one?
(Really left field one this) - AGM to be held the Monday after finals night every year, failing that on a pre-ordained monday as Neil suggested?
Being nice to people like Debbie and Neil who put up dead sensible posts?
Removing Town End Traffic Lights?
Transfering VED onto Petrol?
Talking about things over a pint?
Taking our potatoes, smashing them up and boiling them for twenty of our minutes?
Any retarded lunkhead who offers another team member outside because he harbours a pathetic penis/brain/cool on TV envy complex, call him 'a very naughty boy' (Goodness knows we couldn't ever harbour the idea of sin binning or sending off, after all, quiz is a physical contact sport isn't it)?

Roll on the season

Official Simon

There can be no rigid promotion criteria, because as soon as you get new teams you will have to compromise it (we have new teams this year).
2 points for right and 0 for wrong is the current status quo.
AGM Monday after finals night! Everybody just wants to be rid of it for the summer by then, nobody would come. We agreed to announce it for last Monday in September, rigid. If you'd been at the AGM you would have known that.
All posts treated on merit. We've already been nice to Neil also, by welcoming him onto the Committee.
Town End traffic lights, maybe...
VED onto petrol - already dealt with this one in a more public forum than this one.
Pint? - um...no.
Potatoes - for mash get Smash.
Retarded lunkheads - not getting into that one, but personal abuse will only get you into trouble...AGAIN!

Guest

Simon,

You say

Guest

PS - I just love the "Um No" reply for the pint!!!

Official Simon

Have you forgotten, that this issue was dealt with in our letter to you of 20.12.06, which I know you received because you talked about it afterwards.

I am sending you the letter attached to an email to jog your memory. Naturally I can't send you the letter we sent to Mr Scott because that's confidential between us and him, but you were sent a letter outlining the decision and you have seen it.

Check your email.

Official Simon · And why not...

I'll tell you what I think, I think using that sort of language on a public forum which the whole world can see, is out of order, especially when you appear to make it deliberately vague so as to smokescreen what or who you are referring to.

A reminder of the FTQL Forum terms and conditions:-

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, libellous, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit.

Guest

I have not forgotton the letter, but if you call that 'dealing with it' I would disagree. I would suggest an apology to my team, and especially Liz would be in order along with an assurance that there was going to be no repetition. When you say

Official Simon

1. The action we took at the time.
2. No.
3. Yes, as our upholding of your complaint showed.
4. No, the forum terms and condition refer to the forum and the forum alone. Anything else is covered by the Rules of the League. If it's not in there then...it's not in there!

peterpotato

Good call Steve, with your template for behaviour, which I would like to think should go without saying.

Along with clarifying the original root of the disturbance (what constitutes a right or wrong answer) which was previously open to interpretation, this template for behaviour was actually covered in Andrew's comprehensive draft of the Official Rules of the FTQL, which quickly followed "the incident" ........

19. The Committee of the Five Towns Quiz League believe that the Five Towns Quiz League should be an organisation that people are proud to be members of, and also believe that the teams in the league should agree with and commit to ‘The Spirit of the Game’. ‘The Spirit of the Game’ should cover all misdemeanours not specifically covered in these rules. Although difficult to define, ‘The Spirit of the Game’ is something that all individuals and teams should be aware of, and should act within at all times during league and cup quiz matches.
The Committee of the Five Towns Quiz League reserves the right to take whatever action is deemed appropriate against individuals and teams transgressing ‘The Spirit Of The Game’, as well as foul play specifically covered in these rules.

Maybe the resolution of this matter is in the hands of you and Scotty, and since you are scheduled to play each other this season (his team finished 2nd and are theoretically promoted) maybe you can shake hands, and apologise to everybody for being such silly-billys !

Guest

Peter, Simon, Jason, I am finding this very tough, so let me summarise my side.

We were playing Peter's side. They were asked a question. They got it wrong. We would have got it right given the opportunity, but before we did, Steve Scott, who was scoring at the time, got out of his chair, informed us in no uncertain terms that they were right (They were not - they were wrong) strode over to where I was sitting, launched a tirade of abuse at me personally, including foul language, fingers in the chest and culminating with an offer to go outside and fight. I was taken aback, and Liz Clapham, next to me was quite upset.

After complaining I recieved a letter which told me that you had upheld my complaint and that Steve Scott had got 'a caution'.

My team and I found this unsatisfactory in that, we saw no evidence whatsoever of any sanction and had no idea of the severity of the 'caution'. We recieved no apology, we are so not sure that it won't happen again and we really don't think it is a good precedent to set.

If you want a politician who allows unprovoked physical and verbal abuse, uninvited threats and foul language and the use of force to settle arguments then I am not your man, for I would never tolerate that, for me, or for anybody else, and I make absolutely no apologies for it.

When Simon says the web rules do not form a reasonable template for league behavior I see we will have to agree to disagree.

peterpotato

My memory is still pretty good regarding the events of that night, so I can't let your post be the last word, Steve.

1. Prior to that quiz, you and Scotty had a bit of "previous", on a night out some months before. You perhaps didn't take an instant dislike to each other, but over the course of that drink-fuelled evening, you grew to develop a mutual loathing of each other, to put it mildly.
2. You were already agitated before the quiz match started. I recall you swearing at both me and Diddy when we walked in, claiming that we shouldn't be allowed to play. You proceeded to be "vocal" throughout the quiz, challenging various answers, even before it all blew up.
3. We answered a question half wrong, half right. Nobody knew the rule, as there wasn't one. Andrew only painstakingly drafted the Official Ruling on right/wrong answers after the event. Your question master on the night was a complete novice. It was his first ever time. He was unable to adjudicate, so Scotty looked at the answer, and ruled "correct". (Maybe something to bear in mind here is that Scotty has played in this quiz league much longer than you or I). Then all hell broke loose. You were no shrinking violet, and gave as good as you got. Swear words were exchanged on both sides. Liz was not the only one upset.
4. People may well find outcomes of Appeals, Arbitration, Trials etc as unsatisfactory, but they abide by their decisions. To demand further punishment once the matter has been dealt with, and closed, is futile, and makes me wonder what your motive is. It's 3 years ago, in the past, finished with, and to bring it up again now is doing more harm than good. 5. You may well get an apology the next time you play Scotty, as to me it's a personal thing between the two of you, rather than a case of Committee vs. Kidd. The ball is in your court, or rather, half in yours, half in his !

Guest

Peter,

I am advocating non violence and asking that the threat of violence in the quiz league be removed. Perhaps I am mistaken but from the length of your last post it appears to me you are almost trying to justify it. If this is so we willn have to agree to disagree, I prefer sorting things out 'inside'.

You say 'I gave as good as I got'. Considering Scotty's behaviour I have to say this is rubbish. Offensive, untrue and utter rubbish. How dare you compare our behaviour on that night? From you this is all the more upsetting in that you are regarded by many as a voice of reason, and I understand why many would readily accept your word.

To say that it was Heather Martin who carried the Scottish flag in the 2006 Olympics is not 'half right' It is wrong, as wrong as saying Martin Johnson, Doc Martin or the Martin House Hospice. Again, if you think it has any semblance of rightness about it we must agree to differ, but that is a shame, because it means my team will always lose out on such disputes and your team will always gain points, just as you did on that night.

The rest of your post, whether true or false, has an insignificant relavence to the issue

peterpotato

To answer in small chunks, Steve......

Guest

peterpotato

Sorry Steve, but if you weren't being flippant, or sarcastic, or ironic, then I really don't get your point.

Nobody is advocating violence.
There is no threat of violence, so there is nothing to remove.

To add a little light relief....

"This issue is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late issue. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-issue."

The only person to keep resurrecting this issue is you, with your constant one-way baiting and name-calling, which some would deem very offensive and inflammatory.

Why ?

Official Simon · Manner

And the fact that you have finally persuaded even a mild-mannered bloke like Peter Askins to talk to you in such a manner...says everything.

Guest

Peter:

I said:

peterpotato

You are undoubtedly a clever and thoughtful bloke, Steve, so I can only conclude that you are being particularly obtuse for an ulterior motive.

You keep harking back to "the incident" of 3 years ago, and state that there still exists a threat of violence. You are not satisfied with the ruling of the Committee, made at the time, but please address these points :-
1. There has been no further incident. Does this support the Committee's actions ? (If not, and since you like my analogies, does this give us the licence to still hate and fear all Germans for WWII ? Yes, ridiculous !)
2. Surely, the threat of violence was more real 3/4 months after "the incident", but your team turned up to play Scotty's, you were both there, and there wasn't a hint of trouble. The conclusion I drew then was that both you and Scotty had recognised your behavioural problems, accepted your responsibilities and the Committee's ruling, and moved on. Surely this was your evidence to indicate there will not be a repetition.
3. I will never convince you on this issue, I realise that. You are very stubborn, and have a very biased recollection of events, and the present climate. However, since you keep playing the team card (I'm doing this to protect my team etc), I find it strange that you keep the issue alive, with your constant Scotty-baiting (I think i'm right in saying that he hasn't posted once on this Forum). To me, you are doing a disservice to your team, rather than representing them, and possibly talking any future incident into existence. Does the saying "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie" mean anything to you ?

BrianMc

jeez , what a load of shoite........................

Official Simon · Shoite...

I couldn't agree more...

Guest · Damned if I do....

Peter

peterpotato

I give up (the voice of reason retreats, much to the relief of the viewing public !).

BrianMc

how's the Achilles Peter ?? will you be fit for this coming FTQL season ?? will it restrict your drinking capacity ??If anyone offers you outside, will you be up to it ?? Rolling Eyes

Guest

Michelle Bradley

Well that was fun.

It seems to me that all this could have been avoided if the disciplinary action had included the requirement for the aggressor to apologise to the injured team. Perhaps that may have prompted an apology from the other side for unsportsman-like actions too. It is apparent that there was fault on both sides, to differing degrees.

Obviously I'm basing this opinion solely on the information provided in this thread, but it seems like a simple act that could have laid the issue to rest 3 years ago.

Although that would have meant I missed out on this fun to read thread. And I do so love a good debate.

peterpotato

To keep things simple, Brian.........

1. Achilles......................healed
2. Fit for the season........within reason
3. Drinking.....................aids thinking
4. Offers........................any reasonable accepted

Wink

Michelle - Glad to be of service, and the matter will be resolved by this time next week, prompting spontaneous rounds of applause and a Hallelujah chorus.

2009 AGM

AGM

Re: 2009 AGM

Thursdays etc

AGM

AGM date

Website etc...

And why not...

Manner

Shoite...

Damned if I do....